Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Προέλλην » 02 Μαρ 2024, 15:54

Concerning timing the distribution and diversity of V13 however, Battaglia proposed an earlier movement whereby the E-M78* lineage ancestral to all modern E-V13 men moved rapidly out of a Southern Egyptian homeland and arrived in Europe with only Mesolithic technologies. They then suggest that the E-V13 sub-clade of E-M78 only expanded subsequently as native Balkan 'foragers-cum-farmers' adopted Neolithic technologies from the Near East. They propose that the first major dispersal of E-V13 from the Balkans may have been in the direction of the Adriatic Sea with the Neolithic Impressed Ware culture often referred to as Impressa or Cardial, rather propose that the main route of E-V13 spread was along the Vardar-Morava-Danube river 'highway' system.

In contrast to Battaglia, Cruciani tentatively suggested (i) a different point where the V13 mutation happened on its way from Egypt to the Balkans via the Middle East, and (ii) a later dispersal time. The authors proposed that the V13 mutation first appeared in western Asia, where it is found in low but significant frequencies, whence it entered the Balkans sometime after 11 kYa. It later experienced a rapid dispersal which he dated to c. 5300 years ago in Europe, coinciding with the Balkan Bronze Age. Like Peričic et al. they consider that "the dispersion of the E-V13 and J-M12 haplogroups seems to have mainly followed the river waterways connecting the southern Balkans to north-central Europe".

More recently, Lacan announced that a 7000-year-old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens tested from the same site were in haplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence. The authors therefore proposed that, whether or not the modern distribution of E-V13 of today is a result of more recent events, E-V13 was already in Europe within the Neolithic, carried by early farmers from the Eastern Mediterranean to the Western Mediterranean, much earlier than the Bronze Age. This supports the proposals of Battaglia et al. rather than Cruciani et al. at least concerning earliest European dispersals, but E-V13 may have dispersed more than once. Even more recent than the Bronze Age, it has also been proposed that modern E-V13's modern distribution in Europe is at least partly caused by Roman era movements of people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe


Current population genetics suggests, that E1b1b1a evolved some 22,500 years ago in the Middle East. A subset, E-V13 (E1b1b1a1b*) individuals migrated from the Middle East and Western Asia into the Balkans around 4500 years ago (Balkan Bronze Age). The "Balkan Bronze Age Theory " became a true competitor to the previous theory (Neolithic Expansion Theory), which suggested that E-V13 slowly spread from the Middle East up and West to slowly expand throughout Europe. While the case number is very small a recent publication suggests that human EV13 positive remains have been found in Spain dating as far back as 7000 years (Marie Lacan et al). If substantiated the Bronze Age Theory may at least have to be modified and the Neolithic Expansionists gain ground, again. The search continues ...

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e- ... background
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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Προέλλην » 02 Μαρ 2024, 16:09

Adminović έγραψε:H E-V13, με τα υπάρχοντα στοιχεία, φαίνεται να εντοπίζεται σε βορειότερες περιοχές (πιθανόν κάπου στα βόρεια Βαλκάνια) και δεν αποκλείεται η έλευση της στην Ελλάδα να σχετίζεται με τις μεταναστευτικές ροές των ΙΕ. :D

This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogro ... -DNA.shtml

Σύμφωνα με αυτή τη θεωρία το E-V13 πρωτοεμφανίστηκε κάπου στα Β. Βαλκάνια ή Κεντρική Ευρώπη (απο προηγούμενο Ε-Μ78 που υπηρχε εκεί, με προέλευση απο την Α. Αφρική/M. Aνατολή) και αργότερα οι ΙΕ κατά την εισβολή τους το ενσωμάτωσαν και το διέσπειραν.

edit
H άλλη θεωρία αυτή είναι της Νεολιθικής Επέκτασης, όπου το E-V13 πρωτοεμφανίστηκε κάπου ενδιάμεσα στην Μ.Ανατολή, και μεταναστεύσεις τροφοσυλλεκτών-αγροτών/πρώιμων αγροτών (όχι των J2 που ήταν καθαρά αγρότες) το έφεραν προς την Ευρώπη μέσω Ανατολίας. εμφανίστηκε στη βάση μιας προγενέστερης κίνησης, σύμφωνα με την οποία η γενεαλογική γραμμή E-M78, πρόγονος όλων των σύγχρονων ανδρών E-V13, μετακινήθηκε γρήγορα από μια πατρίδα της Νότιας Αιγύπτου και έφτασε στην Ευρώπη μόνο με μεσολιθικές τεχνολογίες. Στη συνέχεια προτείνουν ότι η υποκλάση E-V13 της E-M78 επεκτάθηκε μόνο στη συνέχεια, καθώς οι γηγενείς "τροφοσυλλέκτες-καλλιεργητές" των Βαλκανίων υιοθέτησαν νεολιθικές τεχνολογίες από την Εγγύς Ανατολή.

Και οι δύο, δηλαδή όλες οι θεωρίες συμφωνούν στο ότι προϋπήρχε E-M78 στα Βαλκάνια απο την Μεσολιθική Εποχή. Υπήρχε και στην Ισπανία και στην Νότιο Γαλλία και στην Ιταλία.
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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό nemo » 02 Μαρ 2024, 16:54

αυτο το κομματι που λεει οτι το φερανε μεσω ανατολιας πολυ μου την σπαει
γιατι δεν στεκει το αιγαιο ηταν η ανατολια καποτε καθως ηταν η περιοχη με ποταμια
λίμνες και πεδιάδες και οταν σχηματίστηκε το αιγαιο οι ανθρωποι αναγκαστικα
και λογω μορφολογιας τους εδαφους εξαπλωθηκαν ανατολικα
ουφ το ειπα και ξεσκασα
0 .
το απόλυτο ένα που συχαίνομαι είναι οι αυταπάτες
επειδη είναι και ο λόγος της ύπαρξής μου

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Προέλλην » 02 Μαρ 2024, 17:35

nemo έγραψε:
Ραν ταν πλαν έγραψε:Συμπέρασμα.
Τη σήμερον ημέρα δε βρίσκεις έλληνα στην ελλάδα ούτε με δέκα εξετάσεις ντιενέι.
Κάτι έχει απομείνει προς Καλαμάτα μεριά αλλά πού να τολμήσουμε να εμφανιστούμε με οικιστικό κυρίαρχο πλέον τον κατσιβελισμό.

μονο στην oρεινη αρκαδια απο πελοποννησο θα βρουμε αρχαιο γονιδιο :P

E-M78 / E-V13 θα βρείς εκεί :D

Southern Italy (Apulia and Calabria) contains sites of the early Neolithic period (Whitehouse 1968), but we know from history that these regions were subsequently colonized by the Greeks (Peloponnesians). To test the relative contribution of Greek colonists versus putative earlier Neolithic settlers, an admixture analysis (Bertorelle and Excoffier 1998) was performed, using E-M78 and J-M172(xM12) as signatures of Greek and Anatolian lineages, respectively. The Anatolian source population was based on 523 Turks, of whom 118 were J-M172(xM12) and 25 were E-M78 (Cinnioğlu et al. 2004). The Greek population comprised 36 Peloponnesian samples, 5 of which were J-M172(xM12) and 17 of which were E-M78 (R.K., unpublished data). In spite of the small Peloponnesian sample size, the high E-M78 frequency (47%) observed here is consistent with that (44%) independently found in the same region (Di Giacomo et al. 2003) for the YAP chromosomes harboring microsatellite haplotypes (A. Novelletto, personal communication) typical of Hg E-M78 (Cruciani et al. 2004 [in this issue]; present study). The admixture analysis yielded an admixture proportion from Greece of 0.07±0.15 for the Calabrian samples and of 0.22±0.15 for the Apulian samples. SD was determined by bootstrapping 1,000 replicates.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9707643663
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Hätt ich ne 2te Chance würd ich es genauso machen
Ich dreh mich nich um es geht nur darum wer du heute bist
Ich bin zufrieden, da scheint jemand auf mich aufzupassen
Ob es für Gott oder den Teufel is
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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Προέλλην » 02 Μαρ 2024, 17:41

nemo έγραψε:αυτο το κομματι που λεει οτι το φερανε μεσω ανατολιας πολυ μου την σπαει
γιατι δεν στεκει το αιγαιο ηταν η ανατολια καποτε καθως ηταν η περιοχη με ποταμια
λίμνες και πεδιάδες και οταν σχηματίστηκε το αιγαιο οι ανθρωποι αναγκαστικα
και λογω μορφολογιας τους εδαφους εξαπλωθηκαν ανατολικα
ουφ το ειπα και ξεσκασα

Σαν να μπερδεύεις λίγο τις εποχές. Όταν το Αιγαίο ήταν ξηρά δεν υπήρχε ούτε ο Homo Erectus

Η Αιγηίδα (γνωστή και σαν Αιγαιίδα) ήταν η ενιαία ξηρά, που κάλυπτε το Αιγαίο πέλαγος και μεγάλο μέρος της τωρινής ηπειρωτικής Ελλάδας, περίπου πριν 2.000.000 χρόνια.

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Αιγηίδα_(προϊστορία)#:~:text=Η%20Αιγηίδα%20(γνωστή%20και%20σαν,περίπου%20πριν%202.000.000%20χρόνια.

ΚΡΥΦΟ ΚΕΙΜΕΝΟ: ΕΜΦΑΝΙΣΗ
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Hätt ich ne 2te Chance würd ich es genauso machen
Ich dreh mich nich um es geht nur darum wer du heute bist
Ich bin zufrieden, da scheint jemand auf mich aufzupassen
Ob es für Gott oder den Teufel is
Ich bereue nichts

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Adminović » 02 Μαρ 2024, 18:02

nemo έγραψε:αυτο το κομματι που λεει οτι το φερανε μεσω ανατολιας πολυ μου την σπαει
γιατι δεν στεκει το αιγαιο ηταν η ανατολια καποτε καθως ηταν η περιοχη με ποταμια
λίμνες και πεδιάδες και οταν σχηματίστηκε το αιγαιο οι ανθρωποι αναγκαστικα
και λογω μορφολογιας τους εδαφους εξαπλωθηκαν ανατολικα
ουφ το ειπα και ξεσκασα


Την περίοδο των παγετώνων υπήρχε η δυνατότητα να διασχίσεις το Αιγαίο σε διάφορες περιοχές.
Ωστόσο είναι προφανές γιατί οι άνθρωποι προέρχονταν κυρίως από τις θερμότερες περιοχές και όχι το ανάποδο.
0 .
Ο ψεκασμός είναι υγεία, είναι πολιτισμός!

Σκοτώνει βακτήρια, ιούς, μύκητες, ζιζάνια, καθώς και πάσης φύσεως παράσιτα
. :yesyes:

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Προέλλην » 02 Μαρ 2024, 18:22

Aρκετά σπάνιο είναι πάντως το Τ1a... mtDNA μου :D
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Ich dreh mich nich um es geht nur darum wer du heute bist
Ich bin zufrieden, da scheint jemand auf mich aufzupassen
Ob es für Gott oder den Teufel is
Ich bereue nichts

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό Προέλλην » 02 Μαρ 2024, 19:28

Origins

E-M78, like its parent clade E-V68, is thought to have an African origin. Based on genetic STR variance data, Cruciani et al. (2007) suggests that this subclade originated in "Northeastern Africa", which in the study refers specifically to the region of Egypt and Libya.[5]

Prior to Cruciani et al. (2007), Semino et al. (2004) had proposed a place of origin for E-M78 further south in East Africa. This was because of the high frequency and diversity of E-M78 lineages in the region of Ethiopia. However, Cruciani et al. (2007) were able to study more data, and concluded that the E-M78 lineages in the Horn of Africa were dominated by relatively recent branches (see E-V32 below). They concluded that the region of Egypt was the likely place of origin of E-M78 based on "the peripheral geographic distribution of the most derived subhaplogroups with respect to northeastern Africa, as well as the results of quantitative analysis of UEP and microsatellite diversity".

Cruciani et al. (2007) also note this as evidence for "a corridor for bidirectional migrations" between Northeast Africa (Egypt and Libya in their data) on the one hand and East Africa on the other. Because Cruciani et al. (2007) also proposed that E-M35, the parent clade of E-M78, originated in East Africa during the Palaeolithic and subsequently spread to the region of Egypt. E-M78 in East Africa, is therefore the result of a back migration. The authors believe there were "at least 2 episodes between 23.9–17.3 ky and 18.0–5.9 ky ago".

Another probable migration to the south from Egypt was noted by Hassan et al. (2008) based upon their survey of Sudan. Specifically E-V12 and E-V22, "might have been brought to Sudan from North Africa after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000-8,000 years ago".

Northwards from Egypt and Libya, E-M78 migrated into the Middle East, but additionally Trombetta et al. (2011) proposed that the earlier E-V68 carrying population may have migrated by sea directly from Africa to southwestern Europe, because they observed cases of E-V68* (without the M78 mutation) only in Sardinia, and not in the Middle Eastern samples. Concerning E-M78, like other forms of E-V68 there is evidence of multiple routes of expansion out of an African homeland.

On the other hand, while there were apparently direct migrations from North Africa to Iberia and Southern Italy (of people carrying E-V68*, E-V12, E-V22, and E-V65), the majority of E-M78 lineages found in Europe belong to the E-V13 subclade which appears to have entered Europe at some time undetermined from the Near East, where it apparently originated, via the Balkans.

Coming to similar conclusions as the Cruciani and Trombetta team, Battaglia et al. (2008), writing prior to the discovery of E-V68, describe Egypt as "a hub for the distribution of the various geographically localized M78-related sub-clades" and, based on archaeological data, they propose that the point of origin of E-M78 (as opposed to later dispersals from Egypt) may have been in a refugium which "existed on the border of present-day Sudan and Egypt, near Lake Nubia, until the onset of a humid phase around 8500 BC. The northward-moving rainfall belts during this period could have also spurred a rapid migration of Mesolithic foragers northwards in Africa, the Levant and ultimately onwards to Asia Minor and Europe, where they each eventually differentiated into their regionally distinctive branches".

The division of E-V68 into sub-clades such as E-V12, E-V13, etc. has largely been the work of an Italian team including Fulvio Cruciani, Beniamino Trombetta, Rosario Scozzari and others. They started on the basis of STR studies in 2004, and then in 2006 they announced the discoveries of single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutations which could define most of the main branches with better clarity, which was then discussed further in 2007.[2][6][7] These articles were the basis of the updated phylogenies found in Karafet et al. (2008), and ISOGG, which is in turn the basis of the phylogeny given below.

Keita (2008) examined a published Y-chromosome dataset on Afro-Asiatic populations and found that a key lineage E-M35/E-M78, sub-clade mutation of haplogroup E, was shared between the populations in the locale of original Egyptian speakers and modern Cushitic speakers from the Horn. These lineages are present in Egyptians, Berbers, Cushitic speakers from the Horn of Africa, and Semitic speakers in the Near-East. He noted that variants are also found in the Aegean and Balkans, but the origin of the M35 subclade was in East Africa, and its clades were dominant in a core portion of Afro-Asiatic speaking populations which included Cushitic, Egyptian and Berber groups, in contrast Semitic speakers showed a decline in frequency going west to east in the Levantine-Syria region. Keita identified high frequencies of M35 (>50%) among Omotic populations, but stated that this derived from a small, published sample of 12. Keita also wrote that the PN2 mutation was shared by M35 and M2 lineages and this defined clade originated from East Africa. He concluded that "the genetic data give population profiles that clearly indicate males of African origin, as opposed to being of Asian or European descent" but acknowledged that the biodiversity does not indicate any specific set of skin colors or facial features as populations were subject to microevolutionary pressures.[8][9]

Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient Iberomaurusian individuals from the Grotte des Pigeons near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all the male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the E1b1b1a1 (M78) subclade, with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13.[10] Martiniano et al. (2022) later reassigned all the Taforalt samples to haplogroup E-M78 and none to E-L618, the predecessor to EV13.[11]

Age

Battaglia et al. (2008) estimated that E-M78 (called E1b1b1a1 in that paper) has been in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently, Lacan et al. (2011) found that human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dated to approximately 7000 years ago were in the E-V13 branch of E-M78.

In June 2015, the M78 mutation and the consequent beginning of the E-M78 and E-V68 family trees was dated by Trombetta et al. to approximately 20,300-14,800 years ago

E-V13

The E-V13 clade is equivalent to the "alpha cluster" of E-M78 reported in Cruciani et al. (2004), and was first defined by the SNP V13 in Cruciani et al. (2006). Another SNP is known for this clade, V36, reported in Cruciani et al. (2007). All known positive tests for V13 are also positive for V36. So E-V13 is currently considered "phylogenetically equivalent" to E-V36.

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).

— Cruciani et al. (2007)
According to some authors E-V13 appears to have originated in Greece or the southern Balkans and its presence in the rest of the Mediterranean is likely a consequence of Greek colonization.[25][26][27] Within Europe, E-V13 is especially common in the Balkans and some parts of Italy. In different studies, particularly high frequencies have been observed in Kosovo Albanians (45.6%),[28] Macedonian Albanians (34.4%),[17] Albanians (32.29%),[29] and in some parts of Greece (ca. 35%).[30][31] More generally, high frequencies have also been found in other areas of Greece, and amongst Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians and Serbs.[6][16][32][33]

Within Italy, frequencies tend to be higher in Southern Italy,[2] with particularly high results sometimes seen in particular areas; for example, in Santa Ninfa and Piazza Armerina in Sicily.[34] High frequencies appear to exist also in some northern areas[Note 3] for example around Venice,[Note 4] Genoa[35] and Rimini,[36] as well as on the island of Corsica[37] and the region of Provence in south France,[27] and is also found in scattered and small amounts in Libyan Jews and Egypt, but this is most likely a result of migration from Europe or the Near East.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68
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Hätt ich ne 2te Chance würd ich es genauso machen
Ich dreh mich nich um es geht nur darum wer du heute bist
Ich bin zufrieden, da scheint jemand auf mich aufzupassen
Ob es für Gott oder den Teufel is
Ich bereue nichts

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό nemo » 02 Μαρ 2024, 22:24

Adminović έγραψε:
nemo έγραψε:αυτο το κομματι που λεει οτι το φερανε μεσω ανατολιας πολυ μου την σπαει
γιατι δεν στεκει το αιγαιο ηταν η ανατολια καποτε καθως ηταν η περιοχη με ποταμια
λίμνες και πεδιάδες και οταν σχηματίστηκε το αιγαιο οι ανθρωποι αναγκαστικα
και λογω μορφολογιας τους εδαφους εξαπλωθηκαν ανατολικα
ουφ το ειπα και ξεσκασα


Την περίοδο των παγετώνων υπήρχε η δυνατότητα να διασχίσεις το Αιγαίο σε διάφορες περιοχές.
Ωστόσο είναι προφανές γιατί οι άνθρωποι προέρχονταν κυρίως από τις θερμότερες περιοχές και όχι το ανάποδο.

ποιες παγετωνες!! λεω οταν το αιγαιο ηταν μια κλειστη θαλασσα υπηρχε η θαλασσα
αλλα και η ξηρα ηταν μεγαλυτερη απο οτι απομεινε σημερα
0 .
το απόλυτο ένα που συχαίνομαι είναι οι αυταπάτες
επειδη είναι και ο λόγος της ύπαρξής μου

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Re: Σύγκριση γενεαλογικών εξετάσεων DNA

Δημοσίευσηαπό nemo » 02 Μαρ 2024, 22:31

ειπα και πριν απο καιρο στον διαδοχο οταν μιλουσαμε για τους αριους

οι συνθηκες για να αναπτυχθει ο πολιτισμος ειναι τα φρουρια η θαλασσα ή ποταμια
δηλαδη η δυνατοτητα να προστατευτει η κοινοτητα μακρια απο επιδρομες και κατακτητες
ωστε να τους δοθει ο χρονος να αναπτυξουν ενα ειδος πολιτισμου
το εδαφος της ανατολιας ή της ασιας μεσης ανατολης κλπ δεν προσφερει την αμυνα
απο τους επιδρομεις ...κατι αναλογο με την ιστορια των μογγολων και της κινας
φανταστειτε πληθυσμους που βρισκοταν σε μονιμη μετακινηση
0 .
το απόλυτο ένα που συχαίνομαι είναι οι αυταπάτες
επειδη είναι και ο λόγος της ύπαρξής μου


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