Καταστροφές-πληθυσμιακές μεταβολές στον ευρύτερο ελλαδικό χωρο απο την ύστερη αρχαιότητα και έπειτα

[Διάδοχος]

Καλώ όλους τους ιστοριοδίφες να συμβάλουν και τον συντονισμό να κρατήσει καθαρό το νήμα απο κουτσουλιές.

[Διάδοχος]

Alaric struck first at the eastern empire. He marched to the neighborhood of Constantinople but, finding himself unable to undertake a siege, retraced his steps westward and then marched southward through Thessaly and the unguarded pass of Thermopylae into Greece.

The armies of the eastern empire were occupied with Hunnic incursions in Asia Minor and Syria. Instead, Rufinus attempted to negotiate with Alaric in person, which only aroused suspicions in Constantinople that Rufinius was in league with the Goths. Stilicho now marched east against Alaric. According to Claudian, Stilicho was in a position to destroy the Goths when he was ordered by Arcadius - influenced by Rufinus - to leave Illyricum. Soon after, Rufinus' own soldiers hacked him to death. Power in Constantinople now passed to the eunuch Chamberlain Eutropius.

Rufinus' death and Stilicho's departure gave free rein to Alaric's movements; he ravaged Attica but spared Athens, which capitulated at once to the conqueror. In 396, he wiped out the last remnants of the Mysteries at Eleusis in Attica, ending a tradition of esoteric religious ceremonies that had lasted since the Bronze Age. Then he penetrated into the Peloponnesus and captured its most famous cities—Corinth, Argos, and Sparta—selling many of their inhabitants into slavery.

Here, however, his victorious career suffered a serious setback. In 397 Stilicho* crossed the sea to Greece and succeeded in trapping the Goths in the mountains of Pholoe, on the borders of Elis and Arcadia in the peninsula. From there Alaric escaped with difficulty, and not without some suspicion of connivance by Stilicho, who supposedly had again received orders to depart. Alaric then crossed the Gulf of Corinth and marched with the plunder of Greece northward to Epirus. Here his rampage continued until the eastern government appointed him magister militum per Illyricum, giving him the Roman command he had desired, as well as the authority to resupply his men from the imperial arsenals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaric_I#In_Greece

*

ΚΡΥΦΟ ΚΕΙΜΕΝΟ: ΕΜΦΑΝΙΣΗ

Flavius Stilicho was a high-ranking general (magister militum) in the Roman army who became, for a time, the most powerful man in the Western Roman Empire. He was half Vandal and married to the niece of Emperor Theodosius I; his regency for the underage Honorius marked the high point of Germanic advancement in the service of Rome. After many years of victories against a number of enemies, both barbarian and Roman, a series of political and military disasters finally allowed his enemies in the court of Honorius to remove him from power, culminating in his arrest and subsequent execution in 408. Known for his military successes and sense of duty, Stilicho was, in the words of historian Edward Gibbon, “the last of the Roman generals.”

[Adminović]

Η πρώτη μεγάλη γενοκτονία κατά των Ελλήνων ήταν αυτή.

Θα ακολουθήσουν διάφορες μικρότερης έκτασης σφαγές, ώσπου το 727-8 θα αφανιστεί πλήρως το ελληνικό στοιχείο από τον ελλαδικό χώρο.

[Διάδοχος]

Μετά την εξαφάνιση που αναφέρεις, έφεραν άλλους ελληνόφωνους απο Καλαβρία και Μ. Ασία. Αν ήταν απόγονοι αρχαίων ΕΛ όλοι αυτοί, είναι άλλη ιστορία.

Είχαν πέσει και μερικές βαρβάτες πανούκλες, θα προσπαθήσω να τις παραθέσω.

[Διάδοχος]

In the meantime the Slavs in the Greek lands began to yield to the Greek language and to the ways of the Greeks. Already about the middle of the seventh century there were Slavs who spoke Greek and dressed like Greeks. Their conversion to Christianity which, except for certain isolated places, was virtually complete by the end ofthe ninth century increased their trend toward Greek and the ways of the Greeks. But education also helped.

One of the best educated men of the tenth century was Nicetas Magister, who, because of his Slavic origin had been referred to by the famous grammarian Euphemius contemptuously as “that wily fellow with Slavic traits”. Nicetas was a native of Larissa in Thessaly, but in one of his letters, a letter full of references to Lycurgus and Solon, he refers to himself proudly as Spartiate in origin on his father’s side, as Athenian on his mother’s. His other letters are replete with allusions to Homer, Demosthenes, Plutarch, Plato, Sappho even. In turning to Greek and to the ways of the Greeks, the Slavs in the Greek lands were influenced by many forces: the state, the army, the church, education. But the force which no doubt exerted the greatest influence on them was the milieu, i.e. the native Greek population which had survived their coming.


https://ojs.lib.uom.gr/index.php/Balkan ... /5113/5142

Παλιό το χόμπι των ελληνόφωνων αλλονταπών να το παίζουν Περικλήδες

[Adminović]

Μετά την εξαφάνιση που αναφέρεις, έφεραν άλλους ελληνόφωνους απο Καλαβρία και Μ. Ασία. Αν ήταν απόγονοι αρχαίων ΕΛ όλοι αυτοί, είναι άλλη ιστορία.

Είχαν πέσει και μερικές βαρβάτες πανούκλες, θα προσπαθήσω να τις παραθέσω.

Ελληνόφωνοι σίγουρα, Έλληνες χλωμό.

Και οι εξελληνισμένοι (ή εκρωμαϊσμένοι πιο σωστά) Σλάβοι έγιναν "Έλληνες" (= Ρωμαίοι) και μετά από κάτι αιώνες αυτοί θα "εξελληνίσουν" Αλβανούς, Βλάχους, Άραβες, Τούρκους και δε συμμαζεύεται.

Ουσιαστικά μιλάμε για μια γλώσσα, που σαν φλόγα πάει από κερί σε κερί, ανεξάρτητα αν το αρχικό κερί έλιωσε.

Θα πει κάποιος ότι και αλλού είχαμε έλευση ξένων πληθυσμών. Σωστό. Πλην όμως εκεί δεν βρέθηκε κάποιος κυρίαρχος να εξοντώσει ό,τι υπήρχε προηγουμένως στην περιοχή και ιδίως τον πολιτισμό που είχε αναπτυχθεί. Αν δηλαδή σήμερα οι Αμερικάνοι μιλούσαν κάποια παρόμοια γλώσσα με τους ινδιάνους, θα λέγαμε ότι είναι γνήσιοι απόγονοί τους;;

Εν ολίγοις, και να υπάρχει ένα ποσοστό dna στην Ελλάδα "αρχαιοελληνικό", μιλάμε για πολύ μικρό σίγουρα ποσοστό, και που σε καμία περίπτωση δεν στοιχειοθετεί καταγωγή ή συνέχεια των Ρωμιών από αρχαίους Έλληνες, από τη στιγμή που ο Ρωμιός ήταν αυτός που εξόντωσε τους αρχαίους Έλληνες. Ακόμα και τη γλώσσα που σήμερα αποκαλούν "ελληνική" (και δήθεν είναι η απόδειξη της καταγωγής τους), την έλεγαν "ρωμαίικη" μέχρι πριν 2 αιώνες.

[nemo]

και τα επιστημονικα ευρηματα που μιλουν για το αντιθετο δεν τα λαβαινουμε υποψιν

εμεις θα λεμε οτι θελουμε.... σωστος ο αντιμν

[Διάδοχος]

The Antonine Plague (165-189 CE)

When we talk about ''the'' plague, we're usually talking about the one that killed off millions of Europeans in the medieval era. It was a big deal. However, it was not the only epidemic to reshape European history. Around 165 CE, a mysterious disease broke out across the Roman Empire. Referred to as the Antonine Plague (after emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus), this epidemic did what hordes of roving armies could not. It nearly broke the Roman Empire apart.

Outbreak

In 165 CE, Rome was flourishing. The empire was shared between two co-rulers, the philosopher-warriors Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus. Verus was just returning from what is now Iran after quelling a renewed rebellion among the Parthians. He brought with him massive spoils of war, including the treasures of the Parthian temples. Unknowingly, however, his troops had picked up another souvenir in West Asia. They were carrying a disease which had severely impacted East Asia years before.

As the army marched back to Rome, the disease manifested and spread everywhere they went, first in Asia Minor, then Greece, and finally into Italy itself. The mysterious epidemic spread like wildfire, particularly through the densely populated Roman cities of Italy. The Romans controlled the entire Mediterranean, and as their trading ships and armies busily swarmed across it, so did the disease. For the next two decades, the Roman Empire was racked with an outbreak unlike anything it had ever seen. The disease slowed after 180 CE, but flared up again in 189 before finally settling down.

At the height of the epidemic, there were fatalities of up to 2,000 people per day, according to Roman sources. In total, about 7-10% of the population of the Roman Empire was killed, expanding from Spain and Italy to Greece, Asia Minor, and even Egypt and North Africa. In dense urban centers, fatality rates may have been as high as 15%. Even the emperors may not have been spared. Lucius Verus died in 169 CE, and Marcus Aurelius died in 180 CE. It has been speculated that both deaths were caused by the disease.


https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-an ... facts.html

Plague of Cyprian (250-270 CE)

The Plague of Cyprian erupted in Ethiopia around Easter of 250 CE. It reached Rome in the following year eventually spreading to Greece and further east to Syria. The plague lasted nearly 20 years and, at its height, reportedly killed as many as 5,000 people per day in Rome. Contributing to the rapid spread of sickness and death was the constant warfare confronting the empire due to a series of attacks on the frontiers: Germanic tribes invading Gaul and Parthians attacking Mesopotamia. Periods of drought, floods and famine exhausted the populations while the emperorship was rocked with turmoil. St. Cyprian (200-258 CE), bishop of Carthage, remarked that it appeared as if the world was at an end.

https://www.ancient.eu/article/992/plag ... 50-270-ce/

Μεταξύ άλλων:

304-5 CE: Σύμφωνα με το το χρονικό του Θεοφάνη, κύμα ξηρασίας, πείνας και επιδημιών σε όλη την αυτοκρατορία

312-3 CE: Σε όλη την Ανατολική Μεσόγειο επιδημία ευλογιάς

383 CE: Επιδημία στην Μακεδονία

395-6 ή 396-7 CE: Επιδημία στην Πελοπόννησο.

400 CE: Επιδημία σε όλη την Αυτοκρατορία.

405 ή 406-7 CE: Επιδημία στην Καππαδοκία.

442 CE: Επιδημία σε όλη την Αυτοκρατορία.

445-447 CE: Πείνα και επιδημίες στην Κων/πολη.

451-4 CE: Ξηρασία στην Ανατολία οδηγεί τον πληθυσμό να τρώει ακατάλληλα φυτά και αποδημούν με ρυθμούς επιδημίας

573-4 CE: Επιδημία σε Κων/πολη, Αίγυπτο και γενικότερα Ανατολή.

586 CE: Επιδημία σε Κων/πολη.

597 CE: Πανούκλα στην Θεσ/νίκη.

598 CE: Πανούκλα στην Θράκη.

599-600 CE: Πανούκλα στην Κων/πολη και Μ. Ασία.

http://www.kyleharper.net/uncategorized ... an-empire/

Plague of Justinian (541–542)

was a pandemic that afflicted the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, especially its capital Constantinople, the Sassanid Empire, and port cities around the entire Mediterranean Sea. One of the deadliest plagues in history, this devastating pandemic resulted in the deaths of an estimated 25 million (at the time of the initial outbreak that was at least 13% of the world's population) to 50 million people in two centuries of recurrence.

...
The number of deaths is uncertain. Modern scholars believe that the plague killed up to 5000 people per day in Constantinople at the peak of the pandemic. The initial plague ultimately killed perhaps 40% of the city's inhabitants and caused the deaths of up to a quarter of the human population of the Eastern Mediterranean. Frequent subsequent waves of the plague continued to strike throughout the 6th, 7th and 8th centuries, with the disease becoming more localized and less virulent.

This outbreak seems to have left a trace in the genome of Y. pestis itself.

After the last recurrence in 750, pandemics on the scale of Plague of Justinian did not appear again in Europe until the Black Death of the 14th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian

Epidemic waves of the BlackDeath in the Byzantine Empire (1347-1453 AD)



https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... 47-1453_AD

Πω, αρρώστια και κτικιό ρε πστμ, δεν έλεγε να ζεις τότε

[Διάδοχος]

και τα επιστημονικα ευρηματα που μιλουν για το αντιθετο δεν τα λαβαινουμε υποψιν

εμεις θα λεμε οτι θελουμε.... σωστος ο αντιμν

Τα επιστημονικά ευρηματα έχουν αναλυθεί στο σχετικό νήμα.

Το ότι ο νεοέλληνας έχει παρόμοιο γενετικό μείγμα με τους παλαιότερους κατοίκους της αρχαίας Ελλάδας, δεν σημαίνει ότι είναι άμεσος απόγονός τους.

Και τότε και τώρα, μείγμα ΙΕ, Αφρικανών και Ανατολιτών υπήρχε και υπάρχει εδώ.

Εν τω μεταξύ μεσολαβεί και μια ιστορία 2000 ετών με πολύ συγκεκριμένα καταγεγραμμένα γεγονότα.

[Διάδοχος]

Ουσιαστικά μιλάμε για μια γλώσσα, που σαν φλόγα πάει από κερί σε κερί, ανεξάρτητα αν το αρχικό κερί έλιωσε.

Αυτό ακριβώς είναι ο Ελληνισμός, η πραγματική διάσταση του -γιατί όχι;- μεγαλείου του.